Digital camera recommendations.
April 2, 2003 - 5:15pm — gfair
What do you folks recommend for high quality ~4.0 megapixel cameras? Or, if not that, then what vendors are known to have high quality digital cameras while still being wallet friendly?
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Comments
Sony DSCF717 5MP Digital Camera
Interesting to note - I checked our dealer prices on this Sony DSCF717 5MP Digital Camera and Future Shop's price is literally only $20 more than dealer cost on a $1299 digital camera item. Nobody is making money here - it all must come from the extended warranty.
Accessories
Couple of items -- first, Future Shop's price is probably significantly lower than yours, since they buy them in quantity.
With digital cameras, the money comes from accessories: extra memory cards (cameras always ship with a small card), extra batteries (either proprietary or recharger plus NiMH), and then stuff like carrying cases.
But, margin on digital/computer stuff is pretty low regardless.
Software
Just wait till companies start making software apps for cameras - first you make de camera, then you make de software, then you get de weeemen.
Can't hold it steady
There are "best shot" features, where multiple pictures are taken in quick succession, and then the best is kept.
But, I think that you couldn't hold the camera steady enough by hand for what you are suggesting to work.
Speed-based feature.
I agree on CCDs that can't do fast FPS shots that this would suffer from the slight movements of human hands, but with shutter speeds of 1/1000 to 1/10,000 it should be so fast that it could be done in the blink of an eye, without us knowing. After all, look at 30 FPS video - so fast we can't see the frames, yet three happen in 1/10th a second, which is darn fast.
Oui, or Non?
Missing feature?
I've noticed cameras can do three to 30 images per second to create short video clips. Will we one day see cameras take one image, and then in microseconds shift by very tiny lengths and image several more times to create an image of significantly higher clarity?
To imagine this, think of a 6-side die using dots and recall the number 5, represented as one central dot, with accompanying dots upper left, upper right, lower left, lower right. Now imagine each one of those dots represent the patern of CCD images the camera takes for each shot. The camera starts with the central image, and then shifts the CCD in microseconds to the other four positions, overlaying their data onto the original image. You get a larger image without cropping, and you also get more detail. Would that not also lead to higher clarity from digital cameras? Not to say they are not clear already with current cameras, but I think there are few on the market that can come close to film.
Don't need massive megapixels
First of all, there is definitely a "megapixel myth". You don't need anything more than 2MP -- at highest quality, you can print out 8.5x11-sized pictures.
For starters, buy from a company that knows optics. Kate's camera is a Nikon Coolpix 2500 -- the Nikons in general are very good, with a long history of making cameras. Although, Canon isn't necessarily a camera company, they also do good optics (think scanners and photocopiers, both of which also use CCDs like digital cameras). Olympus has been putting out some good cameras as well.
Other things to look at include:
Batteries
Even if the camera uses "regular" batteries, you'll want to invest in rechargeable NiMH batteries, otherwise you'll end up paying a fortune in batteries, plus regular alkaline batteries run out much quicker. Our Nikon Coolpix uses proprietary LiOn batteries and an external charger. We bought an extra battery ($90) so we always have one charged.
Type of Memory
If you have other devices (e.g. a PDA) that also takes memory, you might want to get a digital camera that uses the same kind. CompactFlash is probably the cheapest, at about $80 for a 128MB card (which is tons). Most cameras will usually come with only an 8- or 16-MB card, so you need to factor that into the price.
Zoom
This is a big factor, because most consumer cameras can't have additional lenses added on. We have a 3x optical zoom -- don't go any less than a 3x zoom. Ignore "digital" zoom completely -- it will just make pictures look pixelated: we never use it.
Form Factor
I don't like the Fuji Finepix line, because they all have a "sideways" form factor that is weird/awkward to hold. Look for something that fits well in your hand, with good positioning of the camera and zoom buttons.
Other Features
Our camera takes short movies without sound, does macro shots (close ups) and timed shots. If you plan on doing more complicated photography, consider one with lots of manual features, and potentially a connection for an external flash.
Our Nikon Coolpix was in the $450 range, and I don't foresee having to buy another one until it falls apart.
Hope this was helpful -- be interesting to see what other people say. Dave, do you still have the long spiel I gave you about what to buy? What do you like/not like about your camera?
Session Start (ICQ - 6852064:Boris)
Dave: Any opinions on digital cameras boris?
Boris: What kind? Home use point and shoot? Middle of the road, general purpose? High end?
Boris: Ya...I might have an opinion or two :)
Dave: I don't know... closer to high end... I read a business 2.0 article about this one today... (Link: http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10022071...)http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10022071&catid=&atab=2&logon=&langid=EN&dept=14&WLBS=fs%2Dweb3
Dave: Maybe middle of the road though... the one thing that bothers me about this one is that it doesn't use Compact Flash cards.... but the price of it's media is pretty close...
Boris: Oh, right, yet another new format
Boris: Doesn't really matter unless you have/plan on having multiple devices
Dave: Yeah... that's what worries me... Compact Flash is pretty standard these days...
Boris: No, not really
Boris: Too big....most companies are moving to other stuff
Dave: Yeah, that's true...
Boris: It was first, so has biggest penetration today, but it is also s-l-o-w
Boris: Right now, format wars with removable flash-based media are in full swing
Boris: Sony even now has three, different, incompatible versions of Memory Sticks !!!!
Dave: Wonder how much faster this Dx stuff is...
Dave: That's ridiculous...
Dave: Said article... (Link: http://www.business2.com/articles/web/0,1653,45620,FF.html)http://www.business2.com/articles/web/0,1653,45620,FF.html
Boris: Yes, it is, just like HP making a different kind of ink cartridge FOR EVERY PRINTER IT MAKES
Boris: ANYWAY, you will likely only buy one more, large-capacity card, and that'll be that
Boris: And you know what -- a 5MP picture is pretty ridiculous
Boris: 2MP == 1600 x 1200
Dave: Yeah... this is true... I'm thinking about buying one before I go away in January... (this is true... 5MP is high... but I've seen some 3MP pictures that weren't that great... )
Boris: What do you think of the pictures from our camera?
Dave: I suppose it depends on the quality of the CCD and such....
Dave: I like them... but I thought you scanned real pictures in...
Boris: Yes...best advice I would give is get a camera from a company that MAKES cameras/optics
Dave: Right... so Olympus or Canon or Kodak is a good bet....
Boris: scanned them in: nope -- back in the day, yes, but all most recent pics are from Nikon Coolpix 750 (? -- I think that's the right model #)
Dave: and it's 2MP?
Boris: List of Boris-approved companies: Olympus, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sony
Dave: Pentax eh?
Boris: List of Boris "no-buy" companies: HP, Fuji, Kodak
Boris: Yes, it is 2MP
Dave: Ok... will remember that... I've heard that the Canon Powershot S30 is pretty good too...
Boris: Yup. Also think about things like whether you want the ability to add lenses
Boris: You can get things like telephoto or wide-angle adapters for *some* models
Boris: Form factor is actually a HUGE deal with cameras, I find
Dave: Hmmm... you know... if I turned into a photographer maybe... but then maybe I'd invest in a nicer camera (likely a real SLR)
Boris: Why?
Dave: Why? Because I'd imagine if I felt the need to use lenses I'd want very good quality pictures...
Boris: And you can't get that with digital?
Dave: I suppose I could...
Boris: Mmm....I really like the look/features of this Olympus: (Link: http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10016177...)http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10016177&catid=&atab=2&logon=&langid=EN&dept=14&WLBS=fs%2Dweb5
Boris: VERY configurable in Manual mode -- the 1/10,000 shutter speed is pretty amazing
Boris: Get good fireworks shots with that
Dave: 24x zoom too.... but a little bulky looking... and I do agree that form factor is important...
Boris: NOT a 24x zoom....you have an 8x zoom...I disabled the digital zoom on my camera...all it does is apply an algorithm...aka make your pictures look closer but fuzzy
Boris: Only optical zoom counts, nothin else matters...and 8x is incredible! We've got 3x
Dave: Yeah... I know it's 8x optical, 3x digital... so you find there is that much distortion introduced with the digital? (actually... in hindsight my parents camcorder doesn't do well with digital zoom... but I'd kind of thought that the algorithms might be better now...)
Dave: And this one uses Smart Media instead of Compact Flash.... what does yours use?
Boris: It's just a gimmick...the built-in software has the algorithms in it anyway (for different modes of JPEG compression...processing the captured image)
Boris: CF....most widely used are either SM or CF, with CF being like I said more widely used, but don't really let that sway you
Boris: Only becomes a factor with something like Memory Stick, which is proprietary
Dave: Right... do you know if there is a PCMCIA adapter for SM?
Boris: Re: bulky: can't tell from the picture, i.e. how big it is. Looks like a nice grip on the one side to hang on to
Boris: PCMCIA -- probably, but these days most get USB media reader
Dave: Hmm... very good point...
Boris: Oh ya...almost forgot: check for batteries, charger
Boris: Often have to start adding cost for extra batteries, and if it doesn't come with a charger.
Boris: Also, whether external, dedicated charger, or whether you plug the camera in directly
Dave: The dimensions are listed ... .10.8 x 7.6 x 7.8 cm not too bad... maybe it's just the optical zoom extended that is making me think it's bulky.. .
Dave: Which would you prefer? external or "internal"?
Boris: Depends...here are pros and cons: external means that you can have battery charging without tying up camera -- internal means you can have camera plugged in while hooked up to your computer
Dave: No power through USB like Firewire though right?
Boris: All in all, extra battery plus external is probably way to go;
Boris: Yes, USB has powering capabilities, I don't know of a camera that takes advantage of it, though
Boris: Olympus: Battery Type 4 AA or 2 CR-V3
Dave: (Link: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/c720uz.html)http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/c720uz.html
Boris: So, you'll want to get rechargeable batteries & charger
Boris: Aaah.....DC in for optional AC....nice for when plugged into comp...best of both worlds
Boris: Cool...two screens, including the mini, low power one on top
Dave: Yeah... though I'm a little dissapointed that they don't seem to show a picture with the lens all the way in beside one with it all the way out...
Boris: The C-720UZ is a fairly compact camera with good image quality. It's loaded with real camera features but can be easily used by those just starting out in photography.
Dave: Hmm... I figured that second one to be an optical viewfinder...
Boris: Here's the "other" review, with lens in
Boris: (Link: http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/olympus/c720uz-review/index.html)http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/olympus/c720uz-review/index.html
Boris: Anyway, hands on is pretty much required...go to Focus Center on Bank Street, I think Ginn down the street on Bank might have some different models, then end up at Future Slp
Boris: For instance: our Nikon not available at Future Shop -- they do carry lots of "non camera" companies
Dave: Lol... I would assume they'd have the best prices....
Boris: Actually, Focus Center and Ginn are the same on models that Future Shop carries...margins are in the add-ons anyways, which is the same dirty secret that FS doesn't tell anyone...
Dave: Typical... : )
Boris: I.e. batteries, charger, more memory, carrying case, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
Boris: OK...I gotta hit the hay....g'night
Dave: G'night...and thanks for your time!
Boris: N/p...bill is in the mail
My Opinions
Okay... So I bought the Olympus C-720 Ultrazoom just after Xmas. I think I likely would have held out longer to buy a camera, but I was going on an amazing trip so decided I had to have one. :)
Anyway, I bought the C-720 because I wanted a camera with a large optical zoom factor. This camera has an 8x optical zoom. I did however sacrifice a few things in getting this camera... my biggest pet peeve with it so far is that it doesn't have a manual focus, and that it can take a while for the autofocus to work. The auto focus also doesn't function well in low light conditions which can be a pain in the butt...
I really would have liked to have had a camera that had a high resolution CMOS sensor that didn't have to rely on crappy shift registers like CCD image sensors do. Digital cameras just don't give you the same image speed (regardless of the shutter speed and aperature you set) otherwise. CMOS is just so much nicer since it can read each pixel individually... but high res CMOS cameras are too expensive right now.
The only other thing I notice about my camera, and I'd read about it beforehand, is image bleeding between high contrast objects... That is, if you take a picture of a dark object on a bright sky, you'll get a purplish line at the border as the colour from the dark object kind of bleeds into the sky... It's typically a very fine line, but it can screw up images if you want to blow them up.
Anyway, that's my big thing... the image speed, and the focus... if my camera had a manual focus I'd be much happier... :)
Then again, if I could have waited long enough, I'd have waited for a camera that had an X3 chip from Foveon in it. Maybe now that they've licensed their technology to National Semiconductor we'll start to see cameras with this amazing tech in them.